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Post by The Resister on Mar 1, 2024 19:13:39 GMT
Joe Biden and Donald Trump try grandstanding and go to the border for the media and today it is time to have what, for many, will be an uncomfortable discussion, debate, whizzing contest. I can promise you that before we're done no matter what you thought the immigration debacle was about, you will be challenged. We're going to get to the bottom of all of it. If you want to be heard, you have the opportunity.
Some posts may get long and you will be offended. I don't care what side of the political aisle you stand on, if the immigration fight is something that grabs your attention, your views will be challenged and you will change no matter what side you're on. I've watched the immigration battle rage on as front page news for 23 years and before that I had 24 more years working in think tanks and working as an activist on issues related to citizenship and immigration. This isn't bragging. It's just a fact: I have no superiors and damn few equals on this subject. If anyone feels differently, this is an open challenge. Post any disagreements here.
The reason that the immigration battle will never be finished as the end game is to integrate the third world into America and destroy the United States as it was once was under the Constitution.
Both sides are going to the same destination, just by different routes. The left knows where they want to go and always have; the right follows them due to ignorance and stubbornness. With that said, let's proceed in the next post...
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Post by The Resister on Mar 1, 2024 20:47:05 GMT
As a full disclosure, I worked with the late Lt. Colonel Gordon "Jack" Mohr (U.S. Army retired) back in 1987 when he was doing articles on the flood of immigrants inundating places like Brownsville, Texas. By the time I met Mohr I had worked as an activist for at least a decade, even doing research for John Tanton - who founded such anti-immigrant non-profits like NumbersUSA, Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) and about a dozen anti-immigration related non-profits in all. It's easy for me to recognize my own work in today's arguments, though much of the research is discredited (but the right don't acknowledge that.) Some of my own work is, in my opinion, wrong because there were factors I was unaware of that affected the outcome.
The most important thing to note is that both Republicans and Democrats are benefiting off the chaos and controversy that the immigration debacle generates. Therefore, there is no genuine incentive to solve the issue. Right now they have a bill to address the border issue, but the Republicans don't want to sign on because Trump needs the chaos and controversy to get elected as president. The Democrats have seized on the issue and loaded it with gun control measures. Democrats oppose the bill due to money being sent to the Israelis participating in genocide. The right doesn't want to pass the bill because they don't want Ukraine to receive any more money to defend themselves with. So, what is really going on?
I'd like to take you back to 1987 when I really got into the issue as an activist. Lt. Col. Mohr was opposed to the flood of foreigners because the Immigration and Natural Service (INS) which predated BICE had estimated that as many as 1 million people were improperly crossing the border every year. Many were believed to be being trained by communists out of Cuba and there were allegations of Soviet helicopters invading our air space during that time. We were worried about a possible military invasion and the takeover of the United States by communists and hordes of third worlders from Mexico and countries south of that.
For me those fears were debunked when, in 1991, Operation Desert Storm was launched in Iraq and Kuwait on January 17. Our military was committed and not only active service members called up, but National Guard and Reserves as well. Even people that hadn't been on active duty in years were on standby. Some were called up for duty and that included police, firemen and EMTs. Okay, so at our lowest point, when the communists could walk across the border with NO resistance and be firmly entrenched before we could mount a military response, it didn't happen. For me it was back to the drawing board.
The real objective for those that promote and engage in flooding America with foreigners is the ultimate destruction of the Posterity of the founders and framers of our Constitution and our cultural heritage along with the destruction of the Constitution of the United States. This part of the plan has been realized for the most part. From my perspective, I don't understand the hoopla today. And that means that I'd like to go down Memory Lane just a little longer so that everybody begins to understand this issue.
In the late 1980s through the early part of 2000 the Patriot Movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) concerned itself with something called the NEW WORLD ORDER and its agenda of a One World / One Race / One World Religion along with a cashless society and the POLICE STATE wherein we are under surveillance 24 / 7 /365. The Blacks were / are Hell bent on destroying both the race and the Constitution over a false and incomplete narrative pushed by the left wing and formerly Democrats. Today that agenda of the left has been largely realized. In the final analysis, the left won as they were able to con the right into taking up the left's war on immigrants and con the right into being the chief spokesmen for the Surveillance Society and POLICE STATE envisioned by those who advocate for the globalist NEW WORLD ORDER. Having gotten the battle into its proper context, we can pivot to the most popular myths about the issue and expose it for what it really is.
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Post by johndrake on Mar 2, 2024 13:04:57 GMT
Having noticed that you post as long as there are views it seemed appropriate to stop by and encourage you to keep up the good work on this thread. This is not an easy topic to digest and people would benefit off a spirited discussion. With immigration and the border set to dominate the headlines for the next several months everybody should be tuned in here to see how this topic unfolds.
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Post by The Resister on Mar 2, 2024 20:21:41 GMT
Having noticed that you post as long as there are views it seemed appropriate to stop by and encourage you to keep up the good work on this thread. This is not an easy topic to digest and people would benefit off a spirited discussion. With immigration and the border set to dominate the headlines for the next several months everybody should be tuned in here to see how this topic unfolds. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Let's see if we can start making sense out of this topic. In the late 1970s I was a kid looking for answers. I literally grew up doing this stuff. At an early age it was obvious that somebody had it in for Whites. There was busing, affirmative action, preferential hiring quotas based on race, so called " Equal Opportunity Employers" (which was code for no Whites need apply) and all manner of programs to marginalize the Whites. So, when Whites began to compete with Blacks who were already getting preferential treatment it was natural to begin opposing the foreigners that would come here and work menial jobs. Having been locked out of the job market due to the discriminatory policies of affirmative action, that was the inspiration to study what is really happening. As it relates to citizenship, one of the major arguments is that foreigners are stealing jobs. There is no doubt that influx of millions of foreigners is displacing the American workforce, but nobody was or is stealing any jobs. In order to steal something from you, you must first own that something. Jobs belong to the individual or the company that creates them. In socialist countries the people (i.e. the government) owns the jobs. Our reality is that the foreigners are displacing the American workforce. AFTER 9/ 11 the people started talking about so - called illegal immigrants (or illegal aliens) and trying to create a narrative that those people are / were criminals. The verbiage is counterproductive to the ultimate goal of removing people from this country. But, I'm not even sure that is what the masses want right now. So, I want to explore a few things with you. According to the Declaration of Independence: " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..." For me, here is the ultimate question: Presuming Liberty is this God given, unalienable Right who are we to tell any foreigner that they cannot come here and take advantage of opportunities willingly offered? In order to arrive at that answer, we have to look at what was meant by unalienable Rights AND how did the founders approach this part of the immigration issue? Liberty most definitely played a role within the states as the states determined who came and went within their borders. Most Americans get one part of this wrong. Immigration is legally defined as a person who leaves their native country and comes here for permanent residence. When a person leaves their home country to come here and work, they are NOT immigrants. Until the right understands this and accepts it, they are going to be on the losing end of the immigration debacle. That brings us to citizenship. The first immigration law passed in the United States happened only weeks after the ratification of the Constitution of the United States. It limited immigration to " free white persons." immigrationhistory.org/item/1790-nationality-act/thehistoryjunkie.com/what-was-the-naturalization-act-of-1790/The significance of that will be explained as we continue in future posts.
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Post by The Resister on Mar 3, 2024 22:14:11 GMT
As an observer I'm not sure I understand the immigration issue from the standpoint of those who obsess over building a wall and militarizing the border. In my mind either each of us has Liberty or we do not. Early in this country's history people from all over the world came her to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. It wasn't until 1952 that we even had a system of selective immigration and began using a quota system. According to Wikipedia: " On June 27, 1952, Congress passed the Immigration and Nationality Act after overriding a veto by President Harry S. Truman. For the first time, the Immigration and Nationality Act codified United States' immigration, naturalization, and nationality law into permanent statutes, and it introduced a system of selective immigration by giving special preference to foreigners possessing skills..." resisters.freeforums.net/thread/307/immigration-citizenship-wall-debateIf you look at what has happened since 1952, the immigration debacle has gotten worse because, like it or not, the legislation had the unintended consequence of forcing people to become citizens instead of just coming here, working and returning home to their native country. On top of that, foreigners were being educated on all the ways to stay in the U.S. One of the most common methods was for an undocumented couple to have children born in the United States. Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to " free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment. God willing we can discuss that too if there is any interest.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2024 16:50:27 GMT
As an observer I'm not sure I understand the immigration issue from the standpoint of those who obsess over building a wall and militarizing the border. In my mind either each of us has Liberty or we do not. Early in this country's history people from all over the world came her to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. It wasn't until 1952 that we even had a system of selective immigration and began using a quota system. According to Wikipedia: " On June 27, 1952, Congress passed the Immigration and Nationality Act after overriding a veto by President Harry S. Truman. For the first time, the Immigration and Nationality Act codified United States' immigration, naturalization, and nationality law into permanent statutes, and it introduced a system of selective immigration by giving special preference to foreigners possessing skills..." resisters.freeforums.net/thread/307/immigration-citizenship-wall-debateIf you look at what has happened since 1952, the immigration debacle has gotten worse because, like it or not, the legislation had the unintended consequence of forcing people to become citizens instead of just coming here, working and returning home to their native country. On top of that, foreigners were being educated on all the ways to stay in the U.S. One of the most common methods was for an undocumented couple to have children born in the United States. Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to " free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment. God willing we can discuss that too if there is any interest. (End of Resisters post - Admin) Below is Liquid Reigns reply If an illegal immigrant has a child here it does not make them a citizen, it merely grants them birth rights that they can accept or deny when they turn 18. The parents can still be deported or removed from the US and they can choose to take their child with them or they can leave the child here with family or place it into adoption. While they are within the boundaries of the US they are subject to our laws. Do you even understand the documents to which you profess to be a scholar of? With your 6 years of immigration law you should at least understand the basics. SMFH
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Post by The Resister on Mar 5, 2024 22:21:15 GMT
Liquid Reigns wrote: "If an illegal immigrant has a child here it does not make them a citizen, it merely grants them birth rights that they can accept or deny when they turn 18. The parents can still be deported or removed from the US and they can choose to take their child with them or they can leave the child here with family or place it into adoption. While they are within the boundaries of the US they are subject to our laws. Do you even understand the documents to which you profess to be a scholar of? With your 6 years of immigration law you should at least understand the basics. SMFH"
"If children are born in the United States to undocumented parents, they are automatically U.S. citizens, and have all the rights that come with that." Ilona Bray, J.D., University of Washington School of Law
legal-info.lawyers.com/immigration/general-immigration/children-of-illegal-immigrants-fight-for-parents.html
You pretend to know all about immigration law, yet a J.D. is disagreeing with you. Furthermore, in your abject ignorance you tried to muddy the water by introducing straw man arguments you make. ALL I said is:
"Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to "free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment."
NOTHING was alleged regarding children born in a foreign country and then brought to the U.S. There isn't a swinging soul on God's green earth that don't know that children born in a foreign country are citizens of that country, not the U.S. regardless of how long they've been here. Your sentence is incomprehensible in English. "Them" could refer to the child or to the parents. But, you and I know what you meant because I only addressed the children and NEVER the status of parents. You have been FACTUALLY refuted on this point Next...
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Post by liquidmicro on Mar 6, 2024 0:10:57 GMT
Liquid Reigns wrote: "If an illegal immigrant has a child here it does not make them a citizen, it merely grants them birth rights that they can accept or deny when they turn 18. The parents can still be deported or removed from the US and they can choose to take their child with them or they can leave the child here with family or place it into adoption. While they are within the boundaries of the US they are subject to our laws. Do you even understand the documents to which you profess to be a scholar of? With your 6 years of immigration law you should at least understand the basics. SMFH" " If children are born in the United States to undocumented parents, they are automatically U.S. citizens, and have all the rights that come with that." Ilona Bray, J.D., University of Washington School of Law legal-info.lawyers.com/immigration/general-immigration/children-of-illegal-immigrants-fight-for-parents.html You pretend to know all about immigration law, yet a J.D. is disagreeing with you. Furthermore, in your abject ignorance you tried to muddy the water by introducing straw man arguments you make. ALL I said is: " Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to "free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment." NOTHING was alleged regarding children born in a foreign country and then brought to the U.S. There isn't a swinging soul on God's green earth that don't know that children born in a foreign country are citizens of that country, not the U.S. regardless of how long they've been here. Your sentence is incomprehensible in English. " Them" could refer to the child or to the parents. But, you and I know what you meant because I only addressed the children and NEVER the status of parents. You have been FACTUALLY refuted on this point Next... Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is it's not me. I am Liquid Reigns. Your Ilono Bray quote actually makes a statement of fact based on assumption, just because they have a JD doesn't make them an authority, look at all the judges and lawyers that get things wrong in court. Children born to those here illegally are born in dual status, the citizenship of the parent(s) and with the birth right of US citizenship. There is no birth Certificate in the US that states on it that you are born a US Citizen. The birth certificate is nothing more than an identifying document of a child being born to a mother and a father at a location by a doctor or nurse. You are assumed to be a US Citizen with this document, you are not guaranteed to be granted a US Passport which is the only document that proves you are a US Citizen. splinternews.com/the-us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-born-near-the-1828701557We then move on to dual citizenship. www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/dual-citizenship/At age 18, they can choose which citizenship they want, or they can keep both, it varies on the country the parents came from. Parents being deported can take their child with them, leave it here for adoption, or if they have family here leave it with them. If the parents take the child with them, at age 18 the child would have to declare or renounce their birth right US Citizenship in most countries, very few countries allow for dual citizenship. The first Naturalization law in the US, limited naturalization to " free white persons". Your right, nothing was alleged about being born in another country and then being brought to the US, so where that came from by you I have no idea. How was I refuted if you can't comprehend what it was that was written, that someone else copy and pasted from another site? I have my suspicions about who the phony Liquid_Reigns is.
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Post by johndrake on Mar 6, 2024 3:49:16 GMT
Liquid Reigns wrote: "If an illegal immigrant has a child here it does not make them a citizen, it merely grants them birth rights that they can accept or deny when they turn 18. The parents can still be deported or removed from the US and they can choose to take their child with them or they can leave the child here with family or place it into adoption. While they are within the boundaries of the US they are subject to our laws. Do you even understand the documents to which you profess to be a scholar of? With your 6 years of immigration law you should at least understand the basics. SMFH" " If children are born in the United States to undocumented parents, they are automatically U.S. citizens, and have all the rights that come with that." Ilona Bray, J.D., University of Washington School of Law legal-info.lawyers.com/immigration/general-immigration/children-of-illegal-immigrants-fight-for-parents.html You pretend to know all about immigration law, yet a J.D. is disagreeing with you. Furthermore, in your abject ignorance you tried to muddy the water by introducing straw man arguments you make. ALL I said is: " Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to "free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment." NOTHING was alleged regarding children born in a foreign country and then brought to the U.S. There isn't a swinging soul on God's green earth that don't know that children born in a foreign country are citizens of that country, not the U.S. regardless of how long they've been here. Your sentence is incomprehensible in English. " Them" could refer to the child or to the parents. But, you and I know what you meant because I only addressed the children and NEVER the status of parents. You have been FACTUALLY refuted on this point Next... Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is it's not me. I am Liquid Reigns. Your Ilono Bray quote actually makes a statement of fact based on assumption, just because they have a JD doesn't make them an authority, look at all the judges and lawyers that get things wrong in court. Children born to those here illegally are born in dual status, the citizenship of the parent(s) and with the birth right of US citizenship. There is no birth Certificate in the US that states on it that you are born a US Citizen. The birth certificate is nothing more than an identifying document of a child being born to a mother and a father at a location by a doctor or nurse. You are assumed to be a US Citizen with this document, you are not guaranteed to be granted a US Passport which is the only document that proves you are a US Citizen. splinternews.com/the-us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-born-near-the-1828701557We then move on to dual citizenship. www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/dual-citizenship/At age 18, they can choose which citizenship they want, or they can keep both, it varies on the country the parents came from. Parents being deported can take their child with them, leave it here for adoption, or if they have family here leave it with them. If the parents take the child with them, at age 18 the child would have to declare or renounce their birth right US Citizenship in most countries, very few countries allow for dual citizenship. The first Naturalization law in the US, limited naturalization to " free white persons". Your right, nothing was alleged about being born in another country and then being brought to the US, so where that came from by you I have no idea. How was I refuted if you can't comprehend what it was that was written, that someone else copy and pasted from another site? I have my suspicions about who the phony Liquid_Reigns is. It is your words if you lay claim to being Liquid Reigns. If you were guessing about who it is - it is you If you genuinely are. I am the incoming admin. Welcome to this world. This went faster than expected. There is an upcoming post here just for you. You won't miss it in the Board News forum.
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Post by liquidmicro on Mar 6, 2024 4:02:19 GMT
Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is it's not me. I am Liquid Reigns. Your Ilono Bray quote actually makes a statement of fact based on assumption, just because they have a JD doesn't make them an authority, look at all the judges and lawyers that get things wrong in court. Children born to those here illegally are born in dual status, the citizenship of the parent(s) and with the birth right of US citizenship. There is no birth Certificate in the US that states on it that you are born a US Citizen. The birth certificate is nothing more than an identifying document of a child being born to a mother and a father at a location by a doctor or nurse. You are assumed to be a US Citizen with this document, you are not guaranteed to be granted a US Passport which is the only document that proves you are a US Citizen. splinternews.com/the-us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-born-near-the-1828701557We then move on to dual citizenship. www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/dual-citizenship/At age 18, they can choose which citizenship they want, or they can keep both, it varies on the country the parents came from. Parents being deported can take their child with them, leave it here for adoption, or if they have family here leave it with them. If the parents take the child with them, at age 18 the child would have to declare or renounce their birth right US Citizenship in most countries, very few countries allow for dual citizenship. The first Naturalization law in the US, limited naturalization to " free white persons". Your right, nothing was alleged about being born in another country and then being brought to the US, so where that came from by you I have no idea. How was I refuted if you can't comprehend what it was that was written, that someone else copy and pasted from another site? I have my suspicions about who the phony Liquid_Reigns is. It is your words if you lay claim to being Liquid Reigns. If you were guessing about who it is - it is you If you genuinely are. I am the incoming admin. Welcome to this world. This went faster than expected. There is an upcoming post here just for you. You won't miss it in the Board News forum. Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is, isn't me, what was posted by that person was a response I made on another board that was copied and pasted only in part, not in whole. I know who you are, pretty sure you know who I am. So whoever the other Liquid_Reigns is, you can either delete them or if they post again, which is what I hope happens, they come clean as to who is trying to impersonate me. Now as for discussions, I have no desire to take over this board as you previously made light of. You will also note I'm not easily offended, and I back up everything I claim or say.
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Post by johndrake on Mar 6, 2024 4:49:39 GMT
It is your words if you lay claim to being Liquid Reigns. If you were guessing about who it is - it is you If you genuinely are. I am the incoming admin. Welcome to this world. This went faster than expected. There is an upcoming post here just for you. You won't miss it in the Board News forum. Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is, isn't me, what was posted by that person was a response I made on another board that was copied and pasted only in part, not in whole. I know who you are, pretty sure you know who I am. So whoever the other Liquid_Reigns is, you can either delete them or if they post again, which is what I hope happens, they come clean as to who is trying to impersonate me. Now as for discussions, I have no desire to take over this board as you previously made light of. You will also note I'm not easily offended, and I back up everything I claim or say. I have done a thread about this as promised. You addressed me. Where do you say it was me accusing you of taking over the board? You finally have the opportunity to back up what you say. You also have an impartial observer that will assist you in the opportunity.
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Post by liquidmicro on Mar 6, 2024 5:49:03 GMT
Who ever the other Liquid_Reigns is, isn't me, what was posted by that person was a response I made on another board that was copied and pasted only in part, not in whole. I know who you are, pretty sure you know who I am. So whoever the other Liquid_Reigns is, you can either delete them or if they post again, which is what I hope happens, they come clean as to who is trying to impersonate me. Now as for discussions, I have no desire to take over this board as you previously made light of. You will also note I'm not easily offended, and I back up everything I claim or say. I have done a thread about this as promised. You addressed me. Where do you say it was me accusing you of taking over the board? You finally have the opportunity to back up what you say. You also have an impartial observer that will assist you in the opportunity. Are you not the one that stated: Take it easy. Liquid isn't going to take over the board. Is that not making light of something? Where did I accuse you of anything? What is it I say? Instead of trying to bait me, why not simply ask me to come here? I gave you my background.
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professorx
Global Moderator
Site Administrator
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Post by professorx on Mar 6, 2024 14:10:36 GMT
If you have an ssn, birth certificate and National ID card you are a citizen.
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Post by liquidmicro on Mar 6, 2024 15:46:31 GMT
If you have an ssn, birth certificate and National ID card you are a citizen. Those documents are nothing more than identification documents. They don't make you a citizen. Are you aware that many immigrants that came here legally and all Green Card holders have those very same documents, yet they are not US Citizens.
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Post by liquidmicro on Mar 6, 2024 17:06:55 GMT
" Children born in the United States become citizens regardless of the immigration status of the parents. So, to repeat from the previous post, the first immigration law passed in the United States limited citizenship to "free white persons" and today children born in this country where their parents are undocumented still get to be citizens of the United States by virtue of the illegally ratified 14th Amendment." Here is a question I have. You claim the first immigration law limited citizenship to free white persons, this is in reference to the 1790 Bill passed by Congress. Yet, you've argued that the federal govt usurped the states powers to control immigration via the passenger cases from 1849. Then you argue The United States Supreme Court granted "plenary powers" to the federal government over immigration concerns in 1875. thefreespeechforum.com/threads/matt-gaetz-makes-stunning-move-in-congress-%E2%80%93-new-bill-is-a-huge-step-forward-for-top-right.24322/#post-499760So if the federal government created the first immigration law in 1790, which would indicate that they have authority over immigration into the US, then the rest of your claims are inherently mute and shows you really don't have a clue about immigration law simply because your arguments and claims don't make sense. What are we suppose to believe about immigration law form you? How can you be taken serious in regards to immigration information if you contradict your own claims? When these things are pointed out to you, why do you get so defensive and become the "tuff guy of the interwebs"? Do you get my point?
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