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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 17, 2022 23:08:16 GMT
" the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..." " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,..." "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world..." "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..." We notice that the terminology Nature's God and Creator is capitalized. No doubt that we're talking about a God. Supreme Judge of the world is another reference to God. But what God? Researchers admit that this reference is to a Christian God" I wonder why "of Nature and Nature's God" why not just say God, I mean in Christianity, there is only 1 God, so why denote the difference? Does man have a different God then nature? Also why "their creator" and not "the" creator? Who wrote this? Through what inspiration? Insofar as who wrote the words in the Declaration of Independence, that would be Thomas Jefferson. As to the usage of the terminology, it was explained in a sermon of that era: founding.com/natures-god/You have to consider a few things to make it easier to put this into perspective: At the time of the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, there were many different denominations of Christians trying to escape religious persecution. That did not mean they wanted to abandon their belief in God Some denominations believed that we should not use a specific name of God, so you will note that Creator is capitalized so as to acknowledge God Jefferson considered himself a Christian; however, his views were not in the mainstream and he wanted to create a document that everybody would be willing to support If you had read the Virginia Constitution of 1776 to which Jefferson was consulted and supported, the previous quote (with a link in the earlier post) answers this. This short article will help in clearing this up for you: thefederalistpapers.org/current-events/what-is-the-law-of-natures-godIn this case, going back to that era when the Declaration of Independence was written, the usage of the terminology during the era is best evidence. Or could it have been they were really looking for "freedom of religion" as in the 1st amendment, as Freemasons only require belief in "a god". Which explains why a Mason may be a muslim or buddhist or whatever?
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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 17, 2022 23:10:20 GMT
Normally a discussion is a give and take event. Hope the OP comes back as I am interested in where this thread goes next. Before I started lurking on the now defunct Liberty Lobby board and this one it never occurred to me that so many issues could be followed to the same sources. If you think about prayer being taken out of the public schools and students not reciting the Pledge of Allegiance it becomes clear why America is not great any more. Then it takes more. Cultural integrity and our history must be saved. We cannot compromise with liberals for the sake of getting along with them. Never have we witnessed a time when we must choose a side or lose our country alike we face right now. Please keep this thread alive. I have returned.............
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Post by The Resister on Nov 18, 2022 16:08:19 GMT
Insofar as who wrote the words in the Declaration of Independence, that would be Thomas Jefferson. As to the usage of the terminology, it was explained in a sermon of that era: founding.com/natures-god/You have to consider a few things to make it easier to put this into perspective: At the time of the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, there were many different denominations of Christians trying to escape religious persecution. That did not mean they wanted to abandon their belief in God Some denominations believed that we should not use a specific name of God, so you will note that Creator is capitalized so as to acknowledge God Jefferson considered himself a Christian; however, his views were not in the mainstream and he wanted to create a document that everybody would be willing to support If you had read the Virginia Constitution of 1776 to which Jefferson was consulted and supported, the previous quote (with a link in the earlier post) answers this. This short article will help in clearing this up for you: thefederalistpapers.org/current-events/what-is-the-law-of-natures-godIn this case, going back to that era when the Declaration of Independence was written, the usage of the terminology during the era is best evidence. Or could it have been they were really looking for "freedom of religion" as in the 1st amendment, as Freemasons only require belief in "a god". Which explains why a Mason may be a muslim or buddhist or whatever? Welcome back to the discussion. I thought we had covered this in previous posts, but maybe I missed something. Let's try it a different way: The First Amendment guarantees us a Freedom OF Religion NOT a Freedom From Religion. At the end of the day somebody's values will prevail. Somebody's sense of right and wrong will be accepted. There will be a standard of morality that determines good and bad; acceptable and unacceptable. There is NO way to protect any society from that. These values might be based upon a religious code OR they might be just voted on. But, at the end of the day, somebody's values prevail. If I have to rehash the previous posts about the Charters, the references to religion in the state constitutions, etc. then this will be a long post. I trust you will read this threat in its entirety in order to keep me from repeating that. You brought up the Freemasons. Some believe that we are a nation whose values are based on Masonry. However, that is to say that of 56 signatories, the only people that influenced America were the dozen or so Masons. I suppose that the rest of the signatories (not to mention the Charters, state constitutions, laws, etc.) were low information idiots in that narrative. I'm not buying it. BTW, even those who try to convince us Thomas Jefferson was a Mason concede that it is not supported by the facts: www.midnightfreemasons.org/2011/10/thomas-jefferson-freemason-or-not_21.htmlIn some state constitutions, the " belief in God" was specific. Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware, 1776, which required all officers, besides an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe the following declaration: " I, A.B., do profess [470] faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration." How can all the pre - Declaration of Independence legal documents of this country be at odds with Thomas Jefferson's presupposed interpretations? How can all of the state constitutions that immediately followed the Declaration of Independence be at odds with Jefferson's presupposed interpretations? I will concede that Jefferson believed that Christianity was not a part of the common law. However, while Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, he did not serve as a judge. The interpretation of our laws is within the bailiwick of the judiciary. They vehemently disagreed with Jefferson. I think if you read, actually read, the following link it would clear all this up for you: h2o.law.harvard.edu/collages/45434Christianity is a part of our common law. Without it, secular humanism becomes the state religion (as it is today.) When you have people like AOC, Ilhan Omar, Bernie Sanders, and Chuck Schumer running the country - IMPOSING their religion on the rest of us, we will continue to go downhill. This will become very much a reality in the next election cycle as we have gone to the point of no return. Without a return to our common law the people have NO legitimate reason to resist immigration, Critical Race Theory, abortion or the takeover by the LBBTQP forces. You will have to accept gun control, anti-white laws ("hate" laws) and settle for the ultimate POLICE STATE. It's going to become one great big clusterphuck. AND there is only one way out: return to the principles of Liberty. If you read nothing else relative to the READ the last link. It starts out boring and dull, but about a third the way through, it is the most educational thing you will read relative to this.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Nov 18, 2022 18:50:26 GMT
"America was founded on Christian principles" I have heard this from many people, but one thing I just dont get...........what proof is there that the US was founded on Christian principles, and if so, then how has the US become so anti-christian? It would seem to me, that such a country founded on the truths of Jesus Christ, would not be so easily sway to be so anti-christ. Can anyone explain this? Wanting to comment on all your posts it seemed logical to start with the first post and respond. A lot of links have been provided to show that our core beliefs are rooted in Christianity. Do you still doubt that? At the same time that America was coming into being the Illuminati was just beginning to form and push for a one world government. While we have never been perfect the record should show that we were proportionally - I got it spelled it right - blessed by our ability to obey God's Law on a national scale. It took a lot to totally corrupt a righteous people. Most of it happened within the half century or so.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Nov 18, 2022 19:00:51 GMT
" the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..." " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,..." "We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world..." "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..." We notice that the terminology Nature's God and Creator is capitalized. No doubt that we're talking about a God. Supreme Judge of the world is another reference to God. But what God? Researchers admit that this reference is to a Christian God" I wonder why "of Nature and Nature's God" why not just say God, I mean in Christianity, there is only 1 God, so why denote the difference? Does man have a different God then nature? Also why "their creator" and not "the" creator? Who wrote this? Through what inspiration? The best evidence that Jefferson was referencing a Christian God comes out of his home state and their 1776 constitution. Jefferson contributed to it. It states "SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other." As you can see Creator is capitalized just as in the DOI and it references a Christian God. Jefferson was not a mainstream Christian. Many religions thought it disrespectful and some people would say Jehovah, Yashua, Yahweh, God, Lord of Hosts, the Almighty, Divine Providence, Supreme Judge of the World, and many more titles. Jefferson was a politician trying to bring as many people to the table as possible. He used generic language around political concepts that all would support without feeling offended.
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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 18, 2022 21:27:48 GMT
Not sure how Jefferson got all in this deal...........but most specifically..........."of nature and Nature's God".............was from a protege of Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne who was not a believer in God when this was written, and the author of " The Age of Reason" Long story short, I think this distinction is made to say that man's God and nature's God are different. Hiding in plain sight, these words are very deceptive.
Lets not argue from a point of authority........meaning to argue from documentation that is up to conjecture.......lets argue the arguement. We can site a million different papers and studies, and never get anywhere.
The first amendment is a limiting device. It limits the power of congress to make no laws to the establishment of a religion. This is understood to mean all religions, even if that religion is Satanism, or atheistststs........or whatever. Long and short, when it comes to religion, the government has no power so to speak, plain and simple.
Sometimes you have to look at the result of something to understand the true goal or intention. One example of this was Hitler in WW2........many people thought that his goal was to proliferate the "master race", and perhaps to rid the world of "Jews" ( that is another topic in itself), but his actions, do not support that theory. Now, if you were to say that Hitler's true goal was to destroy Europe.....then you would be correct. Sometimes the desired effect is the result of actions, meaning sometimes deception is successfull. This does not apply to all things, but sometimes is the only way to decipher a complicated issue like this one.
So, if in fact this country was founded in Christianity, then why this contradiction? Why the freedom of religion instead of embracing Christianity in total? Why have the choice?
I think that this country was not founded on Christ, but on Abaddon, (see Rev. 9:11). And yes, 9/11 is what i said.
Many of the founders were Freemasons, who do not necessarily worship the only God, just "a God". If this is the truth, then how can one come to the conclusion that America was founded on principles that would omit many from citizenship, due to this alledged fact?
Do not misunderstand, I AM a knower of Christ, and a patriot..........but when faced with this contradiction...........well yalls turn.
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Post by The Resister on Nov 19, 2022 4:52:06 GMT
Not sure how Jefferson got all in this deal...........but most specifically..........."of nature and Nature's God".............was from a protege of Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne who was not a believer in God when this was written, and the author of " The Age of Reason" Long story short, I think this distinction is made to say that man's God and nature's God are different. Hiding in plain sight, these words are very deceptive. Lets not argue from a point of authority........meaning to argue from documentation that is up to conjecture.......lets argue the arguement. We can site a million different papers and studies, and never get anywhere. The first amendment is a limiting device. It limits the power of congress to make no laws to the establishment of a religion. This is understood to mean all religions, even if that religion is Satanism, or atheistststs........or whatever. Long and short, when it comes to religion, the government has no power so to speak, plain and simple. Sometimes you have to look at the result of something to understand the true goal or intention. One example of this was Hitler in WW2........many people thought that his goal was to proliferate the "master race", and perhaps to rid the world of "Jews" ( that is another topic in itself), but his actions, do not support that theory. Now, if you were to say that Hitler's true goal was to destroy Europe.....then you would be correct. Sometimes the desired effect is the result of actions, meaning sometimes deception is successfull. This does not apply to all things, but sometimes is the only way to decipher a complicated issue like this one. So, if in fact this country was founded in Christianity, then why this contradiction? Why the freedom of religion instead of embracing Christianity in total? Why have the choice? I think that this country was not founded on Christ, but on Abaddon, (see Rev. 9:11). And yes, 9/11 is what i said. Many of the founders were Freemasons, who do not necessarily worship the only God, just "a God". If this is the truth, then how can one come to the conclusion that America was founded on principles that would omit many from citizenship, due to this alledged fact? Do not misunderstand, I AM a knower of Christ, and a patriot..........but when faced with this contradiction...........well yalls turn. This is a personal observation, not a personal slam. You appear to have drunk far too much Kool Aid from the left. Or would that be Hater Aid for lefties? You are continuing to argue for a theocracy. Here are the problems for you: There were 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. Only about 9 are Freemasons. Your narrative presupposes that 47 signatories to the Declaration of Independence were complete idiots. It then presupposes that all 9 Masons were high ranking insiders that knew and understood what was happening. I look back on it and wonder how much insider information that the founders and framers really had. Benjamin Franklin was 70 years old when the Illuminati was founded; George Washington would be about 44. What was the history of Freemasonry up to that point and how much did those few men know? I can speak on this with SOME degree of experience. I was once an indirect representative of a satellite group connected to the Illuminati and Freemasons. In those days I would have defended that organization to the death the way Trumpers defend him. Not everybody knows the plan. Back to the issue at hand. Within weeks after the Constitution was ratified, Congress passed the first naturalization law. It limited citizenship to " free white persons." So, who were " free white persons" and where did they normally come from? Did they not come from where religion was compulsory? Part of the answer to your question is that the federal government had NO authority to require people to belong or not belong to a denomination. We've covered the reasons that " Christian God, Jesus," etc. were not spelled out... not everybody used the term equally. AND America is not a theocracy. Add to that, because the federal government had no jurisdiction over the individual states, the states chose to limit the holding of public office to Christians. There were no religious tests; just the affirmation that the potential office holder believe in the basic tenets of faith. And WHY? Our system of jurisprudence is predicated on the Anglo Saxon / English Common Law... which is what white people seeking citizenship were used to. There wasn't much need to make them swear to what they were in that regard. And, did I mention that America is not a theocracy? But,, but, but... There is so much Freemason influence in our national symbols. We cannot deny its influence. That is partially right. What is equally true is that you cannot deny all the contributions to our national character by the scores and scores of Christians that perpetuated the common law in our courts nor the scores of Christians that had contributions to our development. Finally, if you are a Christian, you should realize that God somebody uses evil people to bring about a righteous result. I would tend to think that if you were consistent in your thinking we should declare Christianity to have been polluted and worthless because Judas Iscariot found his way into such a revered position. Theocracy - 1) Mandatory -Rulers require everyone to belong to a specific religion 2) Rulers claim to be appointed by God to enforce the state religion and the ruler is considered to be guided by the divine and obeyed accordingly 3) Authority comes from a centralized source where there is no separation of powers Christian Nation - 1) We have a Freedom of Religion. The INDIVIDUAL is not required to join any church, adopt any tenet of faith, take a religious test, nor believe in God and NO RIGHT can be diminished for their failure to do so 2) Our system of jurisprudence is predicated on biblical principles. Our moral values are reflected in the common law which is consistent with the values expressed in the Bible 3) We do not have religious leaders but, rather representatives of the people, chosen by the people, answerable to the people. Those representatives are tasked with guaranteeing a Republic Form of Government as per the Constitution 4) The Constitution specified the requirements of citizenship and it announced to whom it was addressed and that was confirmed by the Constitution of the United States 5) The people reserve the Right not to be lorded over by tyrants (Galatians 5: 1) 6) In our Christian nation, we started out with the presupposition that a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that to be) gave you Rights that are above the reach of government and the people can challenge the leadership (unlike a theocracy) when those God given Rights are disrespected. That is just a start. I'm not only a Christian, but was heavily involved in the Patriot Movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective.) I know all the conspiracy theories and arguments. The anti-Federalists predicted the implosion of this Republic; however, it was still the longest lasting one in history. Some claim that the U.S. is modern day Babylon while the founders believed it to be the New Jerusalem - the regathering spot for biblical Israel. The possibility exists that it is both. At the end of the day, the liberals have only one thing. That is it. Their view is that if we make the argument for a Christian nation, them it is a theocracy. Theocratic governments according to atheists, humanists, etc., seek guidance from higher powers to cover all aspects of life, including law, punishment, education and marriage. That is only partially true in America. If not for that we might ultimately accept pedophilia, homosexuality, infanticide, miscegenation, and a driving obsession to drive Christians from the face of the earth unless they pledge fealty to a democracy and the rule of the masses... Oh wait. They already have that. That is why America has fallen. Back to you...
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Nov 19, 2022 22:58:29 GMT
Not sure how Jefferson got all in this deal...........but most specifically..........."of nature and Nature's God".............was from a protege of Ben Franklin, Thomas Payne who was not a believer in God when this was written, and the author of " The Age of Reason" Long story short, I think this distinction is made to say that man's God and nature's God are different. Hiding in plain sight, these words are very deceptive. Lets not argue from a point of authority........meaning to argue from documentation that is up to conjecture.......lets argue the arguement. We can site a million different papers and studies, and never get anywhere. The first amendment is a limiting device. It limits the power of congress to make no laws to the establishment of a religion. This is understood to mean all religions, even if that religion is Satanism, or atheistststs........or whatever. Long and short, when it comes to religion, the government has no power so to speak, plain and simple. Sometimes you have to look at the result of something to understand the true goal or intention. One example of this was Hitler in WW2........many people thought that his goal was to proliferate the "master race", and perhaps to rid the world of "Jews" ( that is another topic in itself), but his actions, do not support that theory. Now, if you were to say that Hitler's true goal was to destroy Europe.....then you would be correct. Sometimes the desired effect is the result of actions, meaning sometimes deception is successfull. This does not apply to all things, but sometimes is the only way to decipher a complicated issue like this one. So, if in fact this country was founded in Christianity, then why this contradiction? Why the freedom of religion instead of embracing Christianity in total? Why have the choice? I think that this country was not founded on Christ, but on Abaddon, (see Rev. 9:11). And yes, 9/11 is what i said. Many of the founders were Freemasons, who do not necessarily worship the only God, just "a God". If this is the truth, then how can one come to the conclusion that America was founded on principles that would omit many from citizenship, due to this alledged fact? Do not misunderstand, I AM a knower of Christ, and a patriot..........but when faced with this contradiction...........well yalls turn. Jefferson gets in the deal because it is from his private letter that spoke to a separation of church and state that ended up influencing the courts in this country. As to your second point I disagree to some degree. Without an understanding of what people meant when an idea was presented we may never know what their intent was. The exact terminology of Nature's God does not necessarily refer to a Christian God except that Divine Providence is also mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Divine Providence does mean our Christian God because in itself it speaks to divinity. Divinity was an issue Thomas Jefferson had with Christians. Since both deities are mentioned and Nature's God is capitalized Jefferson was referencing a specific God. But he said it and the founders took it at face value. I want to also speak to where we agree. The intent in building this country was to become a shining city on a hill. I got that from the first reply made to you on this topic. You might want to reread it. When the Constitution was ratified its purpose was set forth in the preamble. The preamble says that "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" The preamble references posterity which as has been pointed out on this board refers to the white race. That point was litigated and IIRC it took up over twenty pages of examples by Judge Taney of the Supreme Court. Most people don't read this but here is the link anyway. www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393I realize how you feel about documenting this kind of thinking but for others it may be important. The intent is spelled out in our history. The question is what was the intent of the founders and framers and how did it play out? Is that fair enough? I read your question about citizenship and I just did not understand. Can you rephrase?
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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 19, 2022 22:59:01 GMT
Before we continue.
You did not address "of nature and natures God" contrast and how it got in the Declaration.
You did not address my statement of Abaddon, and Revelation 9:11
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Post by The Resister on Nov 20, 2022 4:59:04 GMT
Before we continue. You did not address "of nature and natures God" contrast and how it got in the Declaration. You did not address my statement of Abaddon, and Revelation 9:11 While you haven't quoted anyone, I take it you directed that to me. I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for and you tried to hogtie me since you find no value in cited sources and the balance of my critics demand them. I will take a swag at this and that is the best I can do. As far as I know, Thomas Jefferson, wrote that phraseology and ultimately he has to answer for it. We do know a bit about Jefferson in spite of the fact that his exact religious leanings are the subject of endless debate. This is probably an accurate view about Jefferson: " Without supporting revealed religion, Jefferson subscribed to the moral teachings of Jesus. He stated this belief explicitly in a letter to John Adams in which he wrote that the moral code of Jesus was "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man." Jefferson even made a collection of Jesus' moral teachings from the Bible which seemed to be in their original simplicity. He used this collection as an ethical guide to his own life." The Religion of Thomas Jefferson, Henry Wilder Foote, (Boston Beacon, 1947) Again, the Declaration of Independence did not create a theocracy. That is where you are stuck. Jefferson appealed to the signatories with biblical principles and, yes, he may have use a generic deist wording. Still, if you go back to the constitution of 1776 in Virginia it is made unequivocally clear that a Christian God is being referenced in the Declaration of Independence. You could argue that deism and Christianity were being promoted in the Constitution, but you would be hard pressed to find a single piece of supporting documentation. The Declaration of Independence did not create any form of government, but in NINE of the original thirteen colonies constitutions, specific language is used to show that we are founded on Christian principles. I'm sorry, but I genuinely cannot see how anybody cannot differentiate between a form of government and principles by which we expect society to be conducted. Let's get real about this: If an American soldier uses a copy of The Art of War by Sun Tzu, does he become an atheist or a Chinese because he conducts military campaigns consistent with the principles laid out in The Art of War? Now, for the view that you expressed relative to the Bible: I'm not sure where you intended to go with Revelation 9: 11. I think if we ever graduate from this thread to something else we might do a long thread by Revelation chapter by chapter. I don't have a lot of set presuppositions there. In most places the Bible refers to Abaddon as a location. In Revelation 9: 11 seems to the name of a king. I'm trying to reconcile how this relates to the topic, but you will have to do a little more explaining about your presupposition before I can say much more.
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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 20, 2022 13:26:50 GMT
The phrase "of nature and natures God" was from Thomas Payne, not Jefferson. The Jefferson Bible is a great example though, of the REMOVAL of the miracles of Christ. Hadnt really got there yet.
And I find it interesting that you think that the Declaration is not a "government creating" document. This is absolutely wrong on many levels.
From the Virginia Constitution:
(16) That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.
Christian forbearance is by definition: patience, that is it. So to say that this proves clearly that Christian values is shallow at best.
Abaddon is in the NKJV once, and yes it names a king, of the bottomless pit ( and who is in the pit??? and who was thrown into the pit? ), and a greeting between people in a certain group of people. If interested in this research yourself.
You do not have to be in full knowledge of a conspiracy to be involved in one.
Why the egyptian and greek architecture in DC and in our money? Abaddon in greek is Apollyon, or Apollo, or Ra in egyptian, or the light bearer others.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Nov 20, 2022 17:13:50 GMT
The phrase "of nature and natures God" was from Thomas Payne, not Jefferson. The Jefferson Bible is a great example though, of the REMOVAL of the miracles of Christ. Hadnt really got there yet. And I find it interesting that you think that the Declaration is not a "government creating" document. This is absolutely wrong on many levels. From the Virginia Constitution: (16) That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other. Christian forbearance is by definition: patience, that is it. So to say that this proves clearly that Christian values is shallow at best. Abaddon is in the NKJV once, and yes it names a king, of the bottomless pit ( and who is in the pit??? and who was thrown into the pit? ), and a greeting between people in a certain group of people. If interested in this research yourself. You do not have to be in full knowledge of a conspiracy to be involved in one. Why the egyptian and greek architecture in DC and in our money? Abaddon in greek is Apollyon, or Apollo, or Ra in egyptian, or the light bearer others. Thomas Payne authored the DoI? Do tell. I am in the dark. I just don't understand your cryptic posts. Are you claiming that since our money system bears Illuminati symbols that the whole country and its people are rotten? Are you equally aware of the Christian symbols in Washington D.C.? After being on the old board to which you probably weren't on there was much information about the Illuminati, Freemasonry, CFR, Club of Rome, Trilateral Commission, and one world government. Being somewhat informed you are going to explain how in detail that takes away from American history.
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Post by weaponoffreedom on Nov 20, 2022 23:36:02 GMT
It is evidence of influence, the momey and arch at least................And what of the rest of my post?
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Post by The Resister on Nov 21, 2022 0:18:29 GMT
The phrase "of nature and natures God" was from Thomas Payne, not Jefferson. The Jefferson Bible is a great example though, of the REMOVAL of the miracles of Christ. Hadnt really got there yet. And I find it interesting that you think that the Declaration is not a "government creating" document. This is absolutely wrong on many levels. From the Virginia Constitution: (16) That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other. Christian forbearance is by definition: patience, that is it. So to say that this proves clearly that Christian values is shallow at best. Abaddon is in the NKJV once, and yes it names a king, of the bottomless pit ( and who is in the pit??? and who was thrown into the pit? ), and a greeting between people in a certain group of people. If interested in this research yourself. You do not have to be in full knowledge of a conspiracy to be involved in one. Why the egyptian and greek architecture in DC and in our money? Abaddon in greek is Apollyon, or Apollo, or Ra in egyptian, or the light bearer others. Thomas Payne authored the DoI? Do tell. I am in the dark. I just don't understand your cryptic posts. Are you claiming that since our money system bears Illuminati symbols that the whole country and its people are rotten? Are you equally aware of the Christian symbols in Washington D.C.? After being on the old board to which you probably weren't on there was much information about the Illuminati, Freemasonry, CFR, Club of Rome, Trilateral Commission, and one world government. Being somewhat informed you are going to explain how in detail that takes away from American history. Cryptic. That is an appropriate word. I'm thinking weaponoffreedom is trying to link the narrative of a Christian nation to Freemasonry. I'm not oblivious to the conspiracy theory of history. Asking me to research some point he's being shy about making doesn't give me a lot to go on. Let's talk about the conspiracy for a moment: Some people begin conspiracy with the Illuminati and move forward, then try to link it to the Bible. This goes a bit off point, but the great conspiracy didn't begin with the Illuminati. In Genesis is the story of Eve, the Garden, and the serpent. As stories go, Eve talked to a snake, ate an apple and was punished by God. Reality check: NONE of that happened. In reality, the serpent (later identified in the Bible as Lucifer, the Devil, and Satan) deceived Eve by conning her into partaking of the tree in the midst of the garden. ALL of that is symbolic (figurative) language. The promise by the serpent is that Adam kind could " be as gods knowing good and evil." The judgment by God is that the seed of the serpent and the seed of Adam kind would be in perpetual warfare. So, beginning in Genesis, we have this effort by the seed of the serpent to replace the generations of Adam. That became the roots of the original conspiracy. Freemasonry, much like the worship of Egyptian mythology is simply an extension of the original conspiracy. Freemasonry sees itself as not a religion, but above religions. In 1903 a Masonic Lodge was taken to court by a former member that had been expelled. Counsel for the Grand Lodge of New York presented the following statement in his " Briefs and Points": " The right to membership in the Masonic fraternity is very much like the right to membership in a church. Each requires a candidate for admission to subscribe to certain articles of religious belief as an essential prerequisite to membership. Each requires a member to conduct himself thereafter in accordance with certain religious principles. Each requires its members to adhere to certain doctrines of belief and action. The precepts contained in the "Landmarks and the Charges of a Freemason" formulate a creed so thoroughly religious in character that it may well be compared with the formally expressed doctrine of many a denominational church. The Masonic fraternity may, therefore, be quite properly regarded as a religious society, and the long line of decisions, holding that a religious society shall have sole and exclusive jurisdiction to determine matters of membership, should be deemed applicable to the Masonic fraternity." I don't know where weaponofreedom is going with his anti-Christian nation narrative, but this the Freemasonry angle is the only one I can see. And I don't understand why people put so much emphasis on the pagans, anti-Christs, etc. and do not give God credit for ANYTHING in the equation. Maybe we will find out.
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Post by The Resister on Nov 21, 2022 0:20:04 GMT
It is evidence of influence, the momey and arch at least................And what of the rest of my post? I'm not trying to dodge you and don't think anyone else is. We are trying to figure out what it is you are getting at. How can we respond to anything here without more information?
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