professorx
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Post by professorx on Dec 1, 2023 12:40:36 GMT
During the month of November there was some discussion on the board and in Bible studies concerning Freemasonry. Some of you probably do not know what its like to be around a nitpicker when it comes to issues. They want to know times, dates, what was going on at the time. It does make you think. Many Christian churches are concerned about Freemasonry. One nonbeliever on this site asked how they could use a password that has the biblical equivalent of the gate keeper of the bottomless pit. The bottomless pit being hades.
There is no doubt that Freemasonry is not Christian. What makes Christians take a secret oath where they align themselves with all the pagan religions of the past? There is a more important question here and it is how can a Christian take any oath? James 5:12 reads "But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation." It is wrong for Christians to take an oath. That does not mean that Christians are doing anything with an evil intent. After all they practice Christmas and Halloween and both are condemned in the Bible. The reasoning here is not to excuse Christians for joining Freemasonry and getting involved with evil. The point here is to put it into context. Another issue worth discussing is exactly how much influence Freemasonry has over the general public. A few replies would be appreciated.
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Post by The Resister on Dec 1, 2023 22:00:00 GMT
Having found out that we are continually monitored here so that the enemies of Liberty can prepare a defense should this info ever get into the hands of mainstream, I admit to being the nitpicker. Also, I want some straight answers. I was reluctant to use some of the many good quotes from sources I have before verifying them AND finding out where my sources stand on a given subject. Also, when the people who want to expose Freemasonry make a claim, I won't get behind it before examining it. The left is good about feeding the right false information. Once that information is proven to be bogus, then everything attached to the bogus information is discredited. Having once worked for a satellite group connected to Freemasonry and the Illuminati they're going to have to work extra hard to suck me into things that aren't true. For example, for years ( decades) I believed that the Masons designed the Great Seal. Then the left kept saying that this historical figure never said this and the other historical figure didn't say that and it got me to wondering if the same case could be made against the left. I studied the facts behind the Great Seal. Turns out the Masons did not design it. If all of these organizations were all that effective they wouldn't have to keep morphing into something else. The Freemasons have a complicated history. Still, they know how to play to the public. The Shriners do really good work and if the right wanted to gain public support, they would finance a cure for childhood cancer or build hospitals bigger than Shriner's hospitals and St. Jude. I'd like to throw this out there just as a primer for understanding Freemasonry: www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=john+ankerberg%2c+freemasonry&mid=CC3A42BB46CC738A7CC7CC3A42BB46CC738A7CC7&FORM=VIRE
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Post by noclevername on Dec 2, 2023 17:21:09 GMT
This is exactly the kind of thread this forum has needed all along. Great opening and it took past midnight to watch that video. It was real informative. There are a lot of questions but let us wait to see what direction the conversation goes in.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Dec 2, 2023 18:29:33 GMT
This is exactly the kind of thread this forum has needed all along. Great opening and it took past midnight to watch that video. It was real informative. There are a lot of questions but let us wait to see what direction the conversation goes in. The intention of this site was to be a think tank in discussion board format. We just got caught up in people pretending to issue challenges and not following through. While many of their arguments were put to the test nobody tried to defend what they realized were untenable positions. That said we do need to discuss this subject of Freemasonry and in the correct context. As far as Christianity goes the Christian people have done a lot of things that are wrong. The celebrations of Easter, Halloween, and Christmas are all pagan. The Catholics that distanced themselves from Freemasonry were the ones responsible for forcing a forbidden pagan celebration to be made into the national holiday we call Christmas. Christians are forbidden from taking oaths and yet they do. In this modern era some churches accept homosexuals and if any of the churches condemn the practice of tattoos and piercings as biblical violations that will be news. The point to all of that is Christians are sinners and they do things that are contrary to the Bible. They offer up excuses and misbeliefs like we are no longer under the law. Almost every believer has their own litmus test of who qualifies and who does not qualify to hold the title of Christian. Therefore they can rule everyone out including themselves if they are being honest. What we should look at it on this topic is mainly three things. Is Freemasonry an evil religion? What is known about it? How do we address it? There will be other questions that need answering in order to understand it so everything is on the table.
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Post by The Resister on Dec 3, 2023 4:18:55 GMT
I hope the new approach works out. I will try to not be make the posts overly long. There are a myriad of questions that we should explore because it seems to me that any political discussion revolving around the foundational principles upon which this country was built always crosses paths with the alleged influence of the Freemasons. SOME, not many - not all of our forefathers were Freemasons. Only weeks before the Declaration of Independence was ratified the Illuminati was formed and, thereafter, became part and parcel of the Freemasons. This opens up the need to examine a lot of issues: When did the Freemasons begin having candidates swear an oath to all those pagan gods? How much did each of the EIGHT Freemasons that were founders actually know? When did they know it? How did they react to the information if they were provided the proof? All of this will become relative if we are to have a discussion of substance. We need perspective and we need context. In that vein I will start with George Washington. I'd like to quote a few things Washington wrote after being informed of the Illuminati's plans: " I have heard much of the nefarious and dangerous plan and doctrines of the Illuminati, but never saw the book until you were pleased to send it to me. The same causes which have prevented my acknowledging the receipt of your letter, have prevented my reading the book hitherto; namely, the multiplicity of matters which pressed upon me before, and the debilitated state in which I was left, after a severe fever had been removed, and which allows me to add little more now than thanks for your kind wishes and favorable sentiments, except to correct an error you have run into, of my presiding over the English Lodges in this country. The fact is I preside over none, nor have I been in one more than once or twice within the last thirty years. I believe, notwithstanding, that none of the Lodges in this country are contaminated with the principles ascribed to the society of the Illuminati." thefederalistpapers.org/founders/washington/was-george-washington-really-a-devout-mason#google_vignetteIt appears that Washington knew nothing of how the lodges were being run and the above article challenges a lot of the hysteria that is used to con people into thinking the Freemasons secretly founded America.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Dec 3, 2023 15:38:45 GMT
The premise on that site is interesting. When Lt. Col. Mohr helped organize the Militia of Georgia - U.S. Militias he was not at the overwhelming majority of the organizational meetings. He showed up at the first meeting and a few thereafter. He knew the general idea and agreed. His main interest was to share his knowledge and so he sold books and cassette tapes he authored. Washington joins a benevolent organization and rarely attends meetings. He goes for thirty years without darkening their doors. Even if he did the people in charge of the initiations and ceremonies may have thought all of the trimmings were innocent and not equated it with pagan worship. Parents never questioned Halloween. It is easy to see that most Masons do not fully research what they are doing.
The Freemasons were started as an organization of masons in the builder sense of the word. Washington was born into a rich family and his closest brush with a career as a mason would have been as a land surveyor. It appears he joined the Masons for the political contacts and the public relations advantages that came with being its leader. The Masons were equally enriched. They got an upper class man with lots of money as their leader in the U.S. Washington was active in the church. He was active in politics. He had a vast estate with workers and slaves to tend to. How much time did he really have to pursue an elaborate conspiracy? It looks like this is opening the door to a lot of questions.
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Post by The Resister on Dec 3, 2023 21:39:04 GMT
Christians have " Christianized" Christmas after the Catholics forced Dec. 25th (Saturnalia) to become a national holiday. Aside from what was pointed out earlier (pagan holidays) we have nominal Christians that have body piercings and tattoos (and they were told the body is the temple of the soul); some drink booze to excess; others have repudiated God's laws; others are in fights over which day is the correct Sabbath day. If we reject the founders claims to Christianity then nobody could be a Christian. The Bible tells us that " all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3: 23 That brings us back to the founders. George Washington doesn't set foot in a Masonic temple for over thirty years. He gets his Masonic apron in the mail. Any alleged ties to the Illuminati's plan for world domination are in question. Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma wasn't published until 1871 and a few years earliers, Albert Mackey was initiated into the Masons (1841) where Mackey became the most prolific writer about the Masons and the rituals starting with A Lexicon of Freemasonry and culminating with Encyclopedia of Freemasonry (1874) So, I'm wondering what the oath that George Washington really took was like. The timelines and the facts are beginning to indicate that we have been accepting half truths (at best) with regards to this issue. For those wanting to know what Christians have been saying about this: www.djameskennedy.com/full-view-sermon/djk19807a-george-washington-the-christian
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Post by The Resister on Dec 4, 2023 13:50:55 GMT
I had some information on Thomas Jefferson and it is hard to say whether he was a Mason or not. Wikipedia acknowledges that the whole topic is difficult. In their article regarding Freemasonry, this is what Wikipedia says: " The two difficulties facing historians are the paucity of written material, even down to the 19th century, and the misinformation generated by masons and non-masons alike from the earliest years." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_FreemasonryAnything prior to 1717 seems to be speculative and therein lies the basic problem. It's hard to determine exactly when stone masons that, for whatever reason, got involved in global government and pagan religions. The infiltration of Freemasonry by the Illuminati post 1776 is relevant and we need to focus on what Thomas Jefferson knew and when he knew it. FWIW, most Masonic scholars believe that Jefferson was not a Mason. Jefferson did have relatives that were Masons; however, bear in mind that all Masons are sworn to secrecy. Presupposing that Jefferson was not a Mason, and presupposing that his relatives didn't tell him any relevant secrets, then there would be no direct link between Jefferson and the global conspiracy. Before going further we need context and perspective. So, I'm leaving this link just to help us put it all into proper context. FWIW, I do not agree with the man in saying that Freemasonry had no influence in the American Revolution. It is possible and hopefully more people will either post or send us relevant links to see. www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/freemasonry/freemasonry-in-colonial-america/
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Post by The Resister on Dec 5, 2023 13:54:49 GMT
My own research into Jefferson reveals that most authorities on the subject conclude he was not a Mason. HOWEVER, Jefferson had close relatives that were Masons. Jefferson spoke highly of those in the Masonic Order, so at the very least, he was a tool. Since Jefferson wasn't a mainstream Christian many people want to call him names and deny him the title of Christian (though Jefferson considered himself to be on.) Some researchers have examined why people joined Freemasonry. This is a quote from an in depth article that delves into that issue: " Mysticism may have attracted aristocratic seekers in the 18th century, but their predecessors in the pre-enlightened 17th century appear to have been attracted to Freemasonry for more practical reasons. Prince James Stuart of Scotland was among the first pre-enlightened gentlemen to enter the craft. Is motivation? He joined the Lodge of Scoon and Perth in 1601 to bind with its lairds and strengthen his claim to the Scottish throne." www.commonwealthbooks.org/pages/the-enlightenment-and-freemasonryPeople join the Masons for social gain. The Masons do things that are unquestionably good for society. Take the Shriners. Somebody that wants to do good may take an oath they don't understand just to participate. No? How many agreements do you sign your name to just to participate and you never read a single word of that agreement? Participation on an Internet site? Don't you just check the box that says " Agree?" As I examine this, I am wondering how much mysticism was involved. Even today, among nominal Christians they believe in a One World God. My own examination into Jefferson will be ongoing.
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Dec 5, 2023 19:18:42 GMT
It may be a bit disagreeable but is using a Mason a good source of information? It is not that important. The research is that Jefferson was not a Mason. He was willing to be influenced by them and that is just as dangerous. One thing is convincing in deciding whether or not Jefferson was a Mason. Jefferson wrote a letter to John Jay while Jefferson was out of the country and the Constitution was being formed. Jefferson was dismayed that the proceedings were being held in private. constitutioncenter.org/blog/a-quick-look-at-thomas-jeffersons-constitutional-legacyIf there were a secret plot by the Masons to control the government there would be no reason for Jefferson to tell John Jay he was frustrated that the Constitutional Convention proceedings were being held in secret. Jay served as vice-president (1816–1821) and president (1821–1827) of the American Bible Society. As a practicing mainstream Christian it does not fit that Jefferson would confide such a thing if Jefferson were a Mason.
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Post by noclevername on Dec 6, 2023 13:10:36 GMT
This thread is going nowhere. John Jay was a Mason. In one post a Mason is quoted as a source. Tell me what is really going down here.
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Post by The Resister on Dec 6, 2023 20:15:37 GMT
This thread is going nowhere. John Jay was a Mason. In one post a Mason is quoted as a source. Tell me what is really going down here. In my posts I'm not implying that the Masons didn't have some kind of influence in the founding of this country. The questions are: How much influence did Masonry have in this country's founding? What were the impressions the founders of this country had of the Masons when they were members? Since the Illuminati did not become involved in Masonry until post 1776, what kind of oaths did the founders take? No matter who I quote, somebody isn't going to be happy. If I quote the Masons the conspiracy researchers aren't happy. If I quote conspiracy literature the pro-Mason factions will accuse me of pushing conspiracy theories. I don't deal in theory. I'm trying to get at the facts. There are a few things we're learning from this research. We've learned that a lot of people joined the Masons for social standing and even having been made into officers, they still didn't have a clue what the agenda was / is with those involved in the less than honorable activities of the Masons. FWIW - While some sources claim John Jay was a Mason, there is no solid proof of it according to most pro-Masonic researchers. John Jay and Thomas Jefferson exchanged letters and they were frustrated by the secrecy surrounding the Constitutional Convention. If the Masons had an ulterior motive and were participating in the Illuminati plan for world domination, it doesn't make sense to criticize the secrecy within the Constitutional Convention via private letters. Some Masons that participated in the founding of this country were also Christians. Who influenced the founding of this country more: Masons or Christians? Am I to believe that the Masons were smarter than all the rest of the founders and spent their lives outsmarting the numerically superior Masons?
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Post by noclevername on Dec 8, 2023 15:08:32 GMT
This is an interesting topic. It just seemed to be going nowhere. Please come back and finish the thread. Just tell me what is really going on. Are you saying Freemasons are good guys or what?
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professorx
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Post by professorx on Dec 9, 2023 4:56:04 GMT
This is an interesting topic. It just seemed to be going nowhere. Please come back and finish the thread. Just tell me what is really going on. Are you saying Freemasons are good guys or what? I was not trying to disappear. Sorry you felt we did. It would be earth shaking news if any of the regular posters on this board were Freemasons. What is really going on is an examination of facts, evidence, perspective, and context. The people who worship conspiracies would have you believe that America was built strictly for financial gain and that most if not all the founders were Masons. No credit is given for the numbers of Christians that gave their input to build this country. The liberals and the conservatives share one thing in common right now. They both claim that the atheist, Freemason, humanist, secularist, globalist, socialist, communist built America and the white people contributed little except slavery. In this rewriting of history Christians did not have any input into the republic. If that is true then those of us here are wasting our time. The best bet is to bank on the conservatives and liberals not knowing what they are talking about because they are both pawns in the game. What did the founders know and when did they know it? What did they take an oath for? Was the oath given to Franklin and Jefferson the same one given to Masons after 1776 when the Illuminati took over? What was their understanding of it? We looked into Washington and he had not set foot in a lodge in thirty years. He got his apron by something that preceded the pony express. We could say he was a MINO. Mason in name only. Consider the facts already on the thread. Consider that SCOTUS Judge Joseph Story was a Mason but as a jurist he made the famous quote “The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.” Why would a Freemason advocate a citizenry that could challenge the arbitrary power of rulers? Story was nominated to the bench by James Madison and Madison is the author of the Second amendment. Madison was anti masonic and once said: “I never was a mason, and no one perhaps could be more a stranger to the principles, rites and fruits of the institution.” We are just assembling the facts and trying see where it leads.
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lee
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Post by lee on Dec 10, 2023 16:56:26 GMT
From my own personal experience my dad is a 32 Degree Freemason. After years of my speaking to him of the Evils of Freemasonry he denied any of it but he no longer attends meetings anymore or any of their events. I believe he got out for me as his son and his family. I also believe some blue lodges are in denial of what some Freemasons do. I have read a lot on Freemasonry and my dad either denies it or is in denial of it. I would never join Freemasonry and believe the Bible is totally against this Secret Society. I used to ask my dad why is it you need to be a Freemason to help kids? There are plenty of organizations and ways to help Children without becoming a Mason.
My personal study of the American Civil War and Revolutionary War proves many officers were Freemasons. Even when one Freemason is fighting against another there is a loyalty to one another still. Many examples of this during the Battle of Gettysburg.
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